Why do MMORPGs suck?

'Yack it up.'
Merlynn
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:09 am

Post by Merlynn » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:23 am

Ugh, You're just gonna drag this out,ain't ya'. Ok,looking over CoH's nerfs I fail to see any kind of reason behind them other than trying to make every character as lame and uninteresting as possible. I see them pulling back on everything without really compensating players. Every nerf has met with some degree of contempt and it's never addressed other than the devs saying "it's for the good of the game".

I don't see how nerfing defense is preferable to making the higher difficulty levels tougher. I don't see how a damage cap helps Blasters play better. I don't see how forcing players to pick from a set of predesigned power sets encourages deversity. I don't see how the travel power debuff makes the game more "fun". I don't see how limiting,more and more,what our "heroes" can do is supposed to make me want to play. Can you enlighten me as to how the game got better? Cause I don't see it. I see it becoming more and more uninteresting as more and more options are closed for the sake of "balence". Hell,they can't even tell us what they're trying to balence! Care to fill us in on that?

I'm not saying some things don't need to be fixed. I'm not saying some powers have to be altered so that they work "right". I am saying that there's a BIG difference between tweaking a power and completely fucking it over. If someone puts the work into making an uber build,fine,let 'em. They found something that works for them,let them enjoy it. Part of the fun is in interacting with other players. If someone comes up with an uber build,I can take on the challenge and make an anti-uber build. Or maybe I can just use a new tactic. By going against the best they have,I become a better player. Plus,if I make an anti-uber build,I can put down the pwnage on a fuck load of noobs who followed a cookie cutter design,but don't know how to really play.

Also,your whole "You shouldn't be able to kill me in one hit" thing kind of falls apart since 2 powers,the Blaster's Sniper Shot and the Stalker's Assassin Strike,are specifically made to do MASSIVE damage in one hit. They're pretty much designed to kill characters with few hit points in one or 2 hits. Explain THAT one. It's like there's 2 teams at work. The ones who come up with new content and the ones who nerf everything and apparently,the new content guys are the bitches of the nerf guys. I mean,why even include an attack like the sniper shot if you're just going to make a damage cap to keep them from "doing too much damage"? How the fuck does that even work? What's the point?

Every major nerf the CoH team has put out has been poorly planned and made to hurt as many people as possible. Global Defense Nerf (GDN). Problem: Tanks have too much protection from their defensive powers,making them hard for NPCs to kill. This is being used to "herd" up huge groups of NPCs and then slaughter them for massive experience gain. Good Solution: Either add some new monster types that are designed to take down Tanks,thus making herding dangerous for any NPC groups,not just special ones like Malta. Or nerf JUST the Tanks powers a little to make it harder to herd. Their Solution: Nerf every defensive power in the game,including the Blaster exclusive powers like Cloaking Device. Which pretty much fucks over everyone. Unanswered questions: Why the hell did they nerf the Blasters,Controllers,and Defender's powers? And why the Power Pool stuff? Where the Scrappers herding? Cause I don't remember anyone complaining about any of that.

Enhancement Deversification (ED). Problem: Players were solidly going with one type of enhancement for a power,like all damage or all endurance recovery. Good Solution: Nothing,it was fine. Their Solution: Make it so you only get maximum effectiveness from enhancements for the first 3. After that,you're "encouraged" to deversify by lowering the effectivness of addtional enhancements. Unanswered Questions: Why was this even a problem? Wasn't the whole point of enhancements to customize our powers how we want? And why did ED apply to powers that only allowed one kind of enhancement? Wouldn't it have been better to adjust how much the enhancements enhance rather than doing something that screws over the non-problem enhancements?

Travel Power Suppression. Problem: Players would fight while using their travel powers to quickly move around the battlefield,making it harder for NPCs to fight them. Good Solution: Adjust the AI so it handles travel powers better. Or increase the endurance drain of travel powers to make it harder to fight with them on. Or simply have them shut off when you attack and give them a longer recharge time. Their Solution: Cause travel powers to not only stop working,but to snare the hero,causing them to move slower than walking speed for several seconds while they're pounded. And since the powers don't technically shut off,they still drain endurance. Unanswered questions: Why the hell are we trying to be fair to the NPCs? Did they complain? The Flash doesn't stop to give people a chance to hit him. Superman doesn't land before cutting things in half with his heat vision. Why the hell am I supposed to do that just because you're too lazy to update the AI?

Those are pretty much the "big 3" nerfs that people hate. To a lesser extent,there's the damage caps and stealth suppression. Then there's the unanswered questions as to why there's no "drop mission" button or more mission slots. CoH is outdated,nerfed to hell,and boring. It is my hope that the CoHemu,with the removal of the nerfs,will make the game interesting and take out 2 of those 3 problems. I don't know how much they can do about the outdated part since they aren't going to mess with the client. And if you love CoH so much,why are you here? You do realize the CoHemu guys are going to try to remove as many nerfs as possible,right?

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Fork
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Post by Fork » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:15 am

Yep, we're going to make a book out all of Merylnn's posts, no doubt.

Warhead
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Post by Warhead » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:52 pm

Seriously, I don't think it's a big deal if the nerfs come back or not, Personally I thiink they should stay out becuase they were just a huge power leveling place for nubs. I dont want nubs in this Emu. MMORPG's DONT Suck. You do. So close this topic, It's basically a big Flame.

Naminator
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Post by Naminator » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:33 pm

[quote:a0fbd6a2bc]And if you love CoH so much,why are you here? You do realize the CoHemu guys are going to try to remove as many nerfs as possible,right?[/quote:a0fbd6a2bc]
Im sorry i must have missed an update where the Devs say that!
Plus man with every post of yours I read, Im getting a feeling that your nothing but a noob who trys to get away with things the easy way!
And BTW that story of yours about you fighting a lvl 60 when your 30 is a pure BS, guess what, I played WoW so dont try to impress me with some BS story and telling me how Pro you are!
If your such a Pro then addapt to the nerfs, you keep saying "Ohhh ima Pro, I make the weak strong" if you are even a half what you pretend to be then just stop trying to get overpowered toons on this EMU.
Go to any privete server of any game, and what you wil see that the biggest problem is overpowered toons, and that even though its planely obvios that they are overpowered, the people that use them will say that they are not overpowered!
I can see now that its not your purpose to make thi game more fun, but its just that you know an overpowered build wich has been nerfed on officials, and your only chose is come to this emu and try to undo the nerfs so you would have an overpowered toon, Im guessing without an overpowered toon you will get rolled by evryone!
And BTW just to let you know, I bet non of the devs/admins even read your stories!
Just give up man, if your only purpose is to Plvl and own ppl with overpowered toons then just give up, no one except noobs needs overpowered toons. SO just give up, MMORGs are way harder than that!
[quote:a0fbd6a2bc]Seriously, I don't think it's a big deal if the nerfs come back or not, Personally I thiink they should stay out becuase they were just a huge power leveling place for nubs. I dont want nubs in this Emu. MMORPG's DONT Suck. You do. So close this topic, It's basically a big Flame.[/quote:a0fbd6a2bc]
Amen to this.
As you can see that most of the ppl (Except noobs, such as yourself) even care about these nerfs.
And Admins/Devs just tell us if the nerfs are gonna be done or not then just close this thread!

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Fork
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Post by Fork » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:42 pm

We will do what the majority of what people seem to think is fit. So I predict a neutral on the nerfs, yes the outrageous ones will be gone, but the ones that actually make it somehwhat fair and most of all, fun, will kept. As I've said before we will go into more in-depth analysis when the time comes for this particular step in the emulation.

Merlynn
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Post by Merlynn » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:22 am

Yeah,this isn't an update. It's pretty much been the mission statement from day one. The nerfs are a big part of why CoHemu is happening. But I think a little dictionary help is in order here to make sure we're all on the same page.

Fix: To repair or improve. In game terms,a fix is something that makes the game better,such as by squishing a bug or reworking something to make it more effective.

Nerf: A company that makes foam toys. In game terms,to deliberatly lower the power or effectiveness of something preceived to be overpowered,especially if it isn't.

Secondly,dwarf story is actually true. You must've missed the part where I mentioned the town guards do the actual killing,I just slowed him down so they could get him. And since it's a group of 40+s versus a MAGE,who are famous for having crap armor,it's not so hard to believe now,is it? Try to read a little slower and take the whole post in. I know it's long but I actually have to explain a lot cause there's a lot of idiots out there who THINK they know what they're talking about but don't. Also,did it ever occur to you that just being level 60 doesn't mean he's a good player. You can grind up to 60 and not learn a god damn thing.

Thirdly,adapting to nerfs is one thing. Adapting to nerfs on a game that's sucking more and more and requires a monthly fee is another. One becomes less motivated to play. It's a *game*,dude. One plays games for *fun*. If I'm not having *fun*,I don't see why I should *play*. And when I'm paying for the service,I'm going to demand my money's worth. If someone sells you something claiming it'll do something and it doesn't,wouldn't you be pissed? When I signed on to CoH,I was promised superheroes. Now,they're kind of lame ass wannabes. They got some flashy moves,but that doesn't stop anyone from killing you. I need powers that work and serve a purpose,not "fair and balenced" rhetoric while I'm being sodomized by a gang because my concept build doesn't have the means to deal with the nerfs like uber builds do. Not everyone did the uber builds but they got hit by the nerfs anyway. How is that fair and balenced? I'll tell you,it ain't. And no ammount of name calling will change that.

Also,the biggest problem with free servers isn't the overpowering. It's the glitches caused by the mods. I've tried out some WoW free servers and they have their pluses and minuses. Most of which seem to come from someone changing something without knowing what they're doing. So yeah,wrong again. And for the emu guys,might wanna watch that. Keep a copy of the old server progs on file in case you need them later. Always a good plan.

Finally,yes they do read them. You've probably seen a reply from one. Name's Fork. He's the moderator here. Might want to pay a little more attention to what's going on around you. Just some friendly advice.

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Fork
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Post by Fork » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:09 am

Poll is now in session :) .

DarkJin
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Post by DarkJin » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:50 pm

I Vote to lock it... sure there are some good points floating around... but most of those points are followed by Flaming the other(s)
I Personally agree with everything Naminator and Warhead said... but no need to flame someone. Let the Guy think what he wants... if he wants the game to have most of the population lvl 50 in a short time let him...

Naminator
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:47 pm

Post by Naminator » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:18 pm

[quote:343ebc1ecd=\"Merlynn\"]Yeah,this isn't an update. It's pretty much been the mission statement from day one. The nerfs are a big part of why CoHemu is happening. But I think a little dictionary help is in order here to make sure we're all on the same page.

Fix: To repair or improve. In game terms,a fix is something that makes the game better,such as by squishing a bug or reworking something to make it more effective.

Nerf: A company that makes foam toys. In game terms,to deliberatly lower the power or effectiveness of something preceived to be overpowered,especially if it isn't.

Secondly,dwarf story is actually true. You must've missed the part where I mentioned the town guards do the actual killing,I just slowed him down so they could get him. And since it's a group of 40+s versus a MAGE,who are famous for having crap armor,it's not so hard to believe now,is it? Try to read a little slower and take the whole post in. I know it's long but I actually have to explain a lot cause there's a lot of idiots out there who THINK they know what they're talking about but don't. Also,did it ever occur to you that just being level 60 doesn't mean he's a good player. You can grind up to 60 and not learn a god damn thing.

Thirdly,adapting to nerfs is one thing. Adapting to nerfs on a game that's sucking more and more and requires a monthly fee is another. One becomes less motivated to play. It's a *game*,dude. One plays games for *fun*. If I'm not having *fun*,I don't see why I should *play*. And when I'm paying for the service,I'm going to demand my money's worth. If someone sells you something claiming it'll do something and it doesn't,wouldn't you be pissed? When I signed on to CoH,I was promised superheroes. Now,they're kind of lame ass wannabes. They got some flashy moves,but that doesn't stop anyone from killing you. I need powers that work and serve a purpose,not "fair and balenced" rhetoric while I'm being sodomized by a gang because my concept build doesn't have the means to deal with the nerfs like uber builds do. Not everyone did the uber builds but they got hit by the nerfs anyway. How is that fair and balenced? I'll tell you,it ain't. And no ammount of name calling will change that.

Also,the biggest problem with free servers isn't the overpowering. It's the glitches caused by the mods. I've tried out some WoW free servers and they have their pluses and minuses. Most of which seem to come from someone changing something without knowing what they're doing. So yeah,wrong again. And for the emu guys,might wanna watch that. Keep a copy of the old server progs on file in case you need them later. Always a good plan.

Finally,yes they do read them. You've probably seen a reply from one. Name's Fork. He's the moderator here. Might want to pay a little more attention to what's going on around you. Just some friendly advice.[/quote:343ebc1ecd]
OK now like your saying that your having *FUN* but you forget that this is MMO=Massive Multiplayer Online! That means that the Creators of this game aint making this game solly for you and your *FUN* of owning with an overpowered char!
NCSoft can care less about your 15$ a month, they care for majority of ppl, and same should be in EMU!
Why?
Because...............The Devs arent making this game for you to *play* and for you to have *fun*, they making this for the public and the majority rules my friend.
And lastly most of the ppl enjoy a competetion, they enjoy beeing speciaal, unique, you know why? Because it makes them think that they worked for it, and that they diserve it!
I personaly dont like going on freaking HighRate servers, siply because theres no future in it, theres nothing but sitting countless hours PvPing like a moron and not having to enjoy any other aspect of the game like quests, and even if you go do that quest its gonna be boring because your doing it for nothing, because your the highest lvl and you got everything! So whats the point?
And admin/mod can close this thread, cuz its pointless, he just whats overpowered toons to pwn every one, its should be clear to every one now (except the slow once)

Merlynn
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:09 am

Post by Merlynn » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:13 am

Nam,I have one question for you. How do you breathe with your head so far up your own ass? I wonder how he'd feel if he looked around and saw some of the plans I talked about for the emu. The ones the emu devs like that go completely against his jihad of pro-nerf. I wonder how he'd react to any number of things that were said. If he just looked around and saw what was going on.

But seriously,why are you here if you like the nerfs? They're on the main servers,15 bucks isn't alot to ask for a game you seem to love. Why even bother us here? If you want what's on the official servers,play on the official servers. I would if I liked the game half as much as you seem to.

You might want to look at the subscriber count on CoH again. It's going down. No end game content,PvP is a joke,the game's dulled to the point few but the most die hard fans can stand it. I can't see anything but a slow,painful end to it. Of course,if you can point to some proof I'm wrong,go ahead. Of course,that last rant seemed to me like you were bored with the game.

So lets see. You've accused me of lying. That I want over-powered characters. And that I can't play unless my character is overpowered cause I suck. Is there anything else you'd like to add to the list? Eating babies perhaps? Or maybe that I'm George "Dubya" in disguise? Or maybe just a nice "(insert weapon/power name here) whore"? Cause just saying it doesn't make it true and all you do by saying it is prove you're not the kind of person the emu devs should listen to.

But hey,I love coming up with analogies,so I'll give it another go. Lets say you were really good at chess. And you were playing against someone who wasn't. After losing,the guy says "Those knights are screwing me up,they should move like pawns so it's more fair." You decide to humor him and agree. Then you beat him again and he says "Those bishops are what helped you win,they should move like pawns and then I'd beat you!" So you agree again and another defeat later he says "The rooks are too strong,they shouldn't be able to move all over like that. If they moved like pawns,I'd whoop you." And then "The queen's the most overpowered piece in the game! Nerf that shit!" and,finally,"The king should move like a pawn and the game shouldn't end if he gets taken." So now you have a board full of pawns. Eventually it comes down to where neither of you can win and he says,"This is boring,I'm going to play something else." So,after all those concesions,in the end,he didn't want to play,he just wanted to win. And when he couldn't win,and he couldn't nerf any more,he got bored and left. Suddenly,it doesn't seem so good an idea to nerf on just one person's say so.

But here's another little bit if info you might've missed. The CoHemu is going to be open source. Which means if you don't like the way the emu devs set up their server,YOU CAN GO MAKE YOUR OWN AND QUIT BEING A BITCH!!! So,yeah. If they don't make a server I like,someone else will and I'll play there,and everybody's happy. So,once again,you're a noob who doesn't know a damn thing about what's going on,and I just pwned your ass. Thank you for playing.

BTW,Fork,when are you going to close the poll?

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